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Date:	11/27/99 7:42:44 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 27 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1406<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Expanded Rogue Generation for CT, and YKYBPTMTW<BR>
Re: Comets vs Asteroids<BR>
Re: Comets vs Asteroids<BR>
Re: comets vs asteroids<BR>
Re: Re Nukes<BR>
Re: comets vs asteroids<BR>
Re: Skip Tracing<BR>
Re: Skipping & ship cost & MTU solution<BR>
Re: Re Nukes<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Re: Re Nukes<BR>
Re: Volcanoes and Cities<BR>
Re: Cold War<BR>
Skipping<BR>
SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Re: Re Nukes<BR>
Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1400<BR>
Contacting Roger Sanger<BR>
Rule of Man Coin<BR>
Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:54:42 -0800<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Expanded Rogue Generation for CT, and YKYBPTMTW<BR>
<BR>
Classic Traveller goobers: A new system for Book 4-7 style generation <BR>
of Rogues (with Private Eyes and Cops thrown in as a bonus) is <BR>
available, along with 77 Starship Quirks and Youth In CT, on my web<BR>
site, which has moved:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.estarcion.com/kaleja/sohl.html<BR>
<BR>
Comments and constructive criticism always welcome.<BR>
<BR>
ObYKYBPTMTW:<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net> wrote:<BR>
> Please, anyone really worried about these things please go pop<BR>
> a dialantin pill now. <BR>
    ^^^^^^^^^<BR>
...anyone else read that as "Bilandin" at first glance? <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell Bornschlegel<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:07:51 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Comets vs Asteroids<BR>
<BR>
At 10:00 PM 11/27/99 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
>>>>Since we've found the crater, the big question is was it a commet or an<BR>
>>>>asteroid.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>So what is the difference between a comet and an asteroid ?<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Tommy Grav<BR>
>><BR>
>>        Mass, and therefore punch-through on the crust, and therefore how<BR>
>>much particulate matter got injected into the stratosphere as a result.  I<BR>
>>think.<BR>
>><BR>
>Asteroids are denser and contain a higher percentage of metal. Comets<BR>
>are mostly water and frozen gasses.<BR>
><BR>
>- Jeff Peterson<BR>
j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
        Hi, Jeff!<BR>
        Right, which means that a 'roid is more liable to "punch through" a<BR>
thin part of the crust and not kick up as much particulate matter as a comet<BR>
which will vaporize its own mass plus what it lands on...  much more<BR>
particulate and therefore more severe climatoligical effects.  Again, I<BR>
think.  =)<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
        PS:  Stupid Canadian Trivia Fact -  The magificent nickel mines of<BR>
Sudbury, Ontario, are actually an asteroid mine.  It looks like a<BR>
nickel-rich minor slammed into the Canadian Sheild where Sudbury currently<BR>
is a few hundred thousand or million years ago.  They've been mining the<BR>
results for almost a century, I believe.<BR>
        <TIC>  Careful attention to detail has led the local mining industry<BR>
to reconstruct the surface of the asteroid by poluting the local area to the<BR>
point that in the '70's it was refered to as a "moonscape" by Greenpeace </TIC><BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:<BR>
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Into Traveller?  Check Out:<BR>
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 23:05:21 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Comets vs Asteroids<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:07:51 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt<BR>
<misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>        Hi, Jeff!<BR>
>        Right, which means that a 'roid is more liable to "punch through" a<BR>
>thin part of the crust and not kick up as much particulate matter as a comet<BR>
>which will vaporize its own mass plus what it lands on...  much more<BR>
>particulate and therefore more severe climatoligical effects.  Again, I<BR>
>think.  =)<BR>
><BR>
Ho Michel!<BR>
I think it would depend on where the object would hit. If it hit in an<BR>
ocean I don't think it would make much difference. Many megatons of<BR>
water would be instantly vaporized. "Hammer of God" anyone?<BR>
><BR>
>        PS:  Stupid Canadian Trivia Fact -  The magificent nickel mines of<BR>
>Sudbury, Ontario, are actually an asteroid mine.  It looks like a<BR>
>nickel-rich minor slammed into the Canadian Sheild where Sudbury currently<BR>
>is a few hundred thousand or million years ago.  They've been mining the<BR>
>results for almost a century, I believe.<BR>
<BR>
That reminds me of "The Mists of Avalon." IIRC Excaliber was forged<BR>
from the metal of a meteorite. An interesting twist on the sword in<BR>
the stone.<BR>
<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 15:10:22 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: comets vs asteroids<BR>
<BR>
>Asteroids are denser and contain a higher percentage of metal. Comets<BR>
>are mostly water and frozen gasses.<BR>
Of course, many asteroids whose density has been measured (Eugenia<BR>
and Mathilde, for example) have densities around 1 g/cm^3, which is probably<BR>
close to a comet.<BR>
<BR>
One big impact difference is velocities; comets are likely to have higher<BR>
velocities than asteroids.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 12:07:05 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Nukes<BR>
<BR>
> >Even in the 3I, nuking a planet "back to the Stone Age" would require a<BR>
> >_huge_ fleet investment and probably take several years to be certain.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >To be blunt, nuclear weapons are not as useful or as destructive as good<BR>
> >mass drivers, so other than perhaps as tactical (battlefield) weapons and<BR>
in<BR>
> >order to take out Tech7-8 comms nets via EMP, and perhaps to power X-Ray<BR>
> >laser mines, that sort of thing, would nukes really be considered useful<BR>
> >weapons in the 3I ?<BR>
><BR>
> Several things:<BR>
> Terrorist Attacks: High yield, small package, easy to smuggle that way.<BR>
<BR>
Ah yes, of course, should have thought of that one.<BR>
<BR>
> Infrastructure destruction<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, this is a posibility if you're not worried about the side-effects, the<BR>
target is not hardened, and don't care if you take out everythng around the<BR>
target as well. In recent wars it has been shown that precision-guided<BR>
conventional munitions are much better for this purpose.<BR>
<BR>
> EMP: Under traveller rules, most tech is subject to EMP even at TL 15<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that's one of those silly archaisms, as most military tech _now_<BR>
can be proofed against EMP, assuming they want to pay for it, and how is EMP<BR>
going to effect laser or maser comms anyway? (unless the burst is in direct<BR>
line of sight for lasers)<BR>
<BR>
Of course, if no-one uses nukes, maybe they didn't bother, but I suspect<BR>
spaceships are going to be EMP-proof by nature, given all the radiation they<BR>
have to put up with normally.<BR>
<BR>
> Sensor Blinding: H-Bombs are VERY effective at short term blinding of<BR>
> sensors; Orbital Flashing should cover even a massive jump-in<BR>
<BR>
This could be considered a draw-back of nuclear weapons, as it does the same<BR>
thing to your sensors, though yes, if you need to blind everybody's sensors<BR>
for a short time for some reason, they are good.<BR>
But again they'll only affect electro-magnetic sensors, mass detectors would<BR>
be unaffected, for example.<BR>
<BR>
> Fragmentation of Asteroidal bodies; You can laser a tube, pack with<BR>
> bombs, and scatter the pieces.<BR>
> Subsurface detonations can cause wonderful seizmic effects.<BR>
><BR>
> Nukes are one of the best energy for mass demolition tools. In an<BR>
> atmosphere, the conversion is particularly effective. And the cost, if the<BR>
> production facilities don't have to be kept under as tight a set of<BR>
> restrictions as current Terran ones tend to be, aren't particularly<BR>
> expensive.<BR>
<BR>
True, for demolituion work where the side-effects don't matter, they are<BR>
good.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 00:21:50 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Re: comets vs asteroids<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, Bruce Macintosh wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Asteroids are denser and contain a higher percentage of metal. Comets<BR>
>>are mostly water and frozen gasses.<BR>
>Of course, many asteroids whose density has been measured (Eugenia<BR>
>and Mathilde, for example) have densities around 1 g/cm^3, which is probably<BR>
>close to a comet.<BR>
<BR>
Which is why I asked the question :-) It is really hard to distingues between <BR>
asteroids and comets after the discovery of the centaurs and the Kuiper Belt.<BR>
Are centaurs and KBO (Kuiper Belt Objects) asteroids. The Centaur (2060) Chiron<BR>
even has periods were its more of a comet with tail and coma, while other<BR>
times it acts like a regular asteroid. A widely accepted theory is that <BR>
short period comets come from the Kuiper Belt. <BR>
<BR>
>One big impact difference is velocities; comets are likely to have higher<BR>
>velocities than asteroids.<BR>
<BR>
I guess that would depend on the comet/asteroids trajectory. A comet<BR>
coming up behind the Earth in its orbit might have lower relative<BR>
velocity than an asteroide hitting head on ?<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Other than the obvious, a rescue mission to an asteroide <BR>
        were that asteroide is starting to develope a tail and <BR>
        coma. A ship investigating the asteroide has chrashed when<BR>
        hit by a jet eminatting from the asteroide and their <BR>
        communications are breaking up due to the interferrance<BR>
        of the tail and coma.<BR>
       <BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:56:56 +0000 (GMT)<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Skip Tracing<BR>
<BR>
On 26 Nov, Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> What Leonard, (and all those SF writers) are doing is setting up a far<BR>
> more cinematic universe, where criminals are evil geniuses (repeat after<BR>
> me: "Before I kill you, Mr. Bond..."<BR>
<BR>
An excellent game.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- - --<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technology Division<BR>
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the galaxy."<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/traveller/deckplans/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 23:01:44 +0000 (GMT)<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Skipping & ship cost & MTU solution<BR>
<BR>
On 25 Nov, Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> > Sounds all rather well-organised. I just can't imagine<BR>
> > it working that efficiently. To me, it seems rather<BR>
> > like a 15th century Florentine bank lending money for<BR>
> > a ship to do speculative trading in the East Indies...<BR>
> > "I'll be back, really I will!" Hmmm....<BR>
<BR>
> They did.<BR>
<BR>
They also had a habit of going bankrupt.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, they could also go bankrupt lending to the local duke...<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- - --<BR>
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technology Division<BR>
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the galaxy."<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/traveller/deckplans/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:35:49 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Nukes<BR>
<BR>
>I suspect that's one of those silly archaisms, as most military tech _now_<BR>
>can be proofed against EMP, assuming they want to pay for it, and how is<BR>
EMP<BR>
>going to effect laser or maser comms anyway? (unless the burst is in direct<BR>
>line of sight for lasers<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that EMP proofing is very expensive compared to building a<BR>
bigger nuke. What it boils down to is that you can harden your material all<BR>
you want, and all I have to do is build a little bit bigger nuke, then all<BR>
your hard work is for naught.<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 12:40:11 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Nov 99, at 7:37, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:02 AM 11/28/1999 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Rarely do<BR>
> >volcanoes in the middle of a city go off because humans are not so<BR>
> >totally moronic so as to build on the flanks of too many active hilltops.<BR>
> > When they have, they've discovered their mistake and not lived to tell<BR>
> >of it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ever visited Naples?  There's also a city in Japan (sawit on the Discovery<BR>
> Channel yesterday, can't remember the name) that sits right under a very<BR>
> active volcano.. the schools have eruption drills! -- <BR>
<BR>
Not to mention that Mexico City's surrounded by the things. And New <BR>
Zealand's full of 'em and our biggest city (Auckland) is built around <BR>
and on a number of extinct volcanos (and Mount St. Helens was extinct, <BR>
remember?) And how about assorted islands? Pelee anyone?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 12:40:11 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Nukes<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Nov 99, at 9:33, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Also, you can create *shaped charge* nukes. So far, this is more of a<BR>
> theoretical possibility than a practical one. But much the same techniques<BR>
> are used in "radiation management" in multi-stage weapons (fission<BR>
> triggered fusion bombs, and fission-fusion-fission "enhanced yield"<BR>
> bombs). <BR>
> <BR>
> Personally, I can only see two uses for this. *Massive* engineering<BR>
> projects and "bunker busters" for deep meson sites. And for the later,<BR>
> you'd probably have to use multiple blasts. Which means some poor Corps of<BR>
> Engineers slobs get to climb into a *fresh* blast crater to emplace the<BR>
> second (third, fourth, etc) charges. Nuke damper would help by suppressing<BR>
> the nuclear radiation, but those craters are gonna be rather warm<BR>
> *thermally*. <BR>
> <BR>
> Oh, wait, there's a third use. A sort of Orion-style propulsion for<BR>
> moving asteroids. But they may be too expensive for that.<BR>
<BR>
They would also be a more efficient 'power plant' for detonation <BR>
lasers. But as you say they could be too expensive to worthwhile (just <BR>
add more Lithium Deutride).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 12:58:08 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Volcanoes and Cities<BR>
<BR>
BTW, for those who were wondering about my statements about the Taupo<BR>
eruption, here's a reference:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.gns.cri.nz/earthact/volcanoes/whitei.html#BACKGROUND ON THE TAUPO<BR>
VOLCANO<BR>
<BR>
As you can see, the 181 AD eruption is estimated to have put around one<BR>
hundred cubic _kilometres_ of material into the atmosphere, and according to<BR>
other sources I've read, several of those cubic kilometres were blown into<BR>
the stratosphere.<BR>
<BR>
This is far more material than even a large number of nuclear explosions<BR>
could throw up. And it is the material in the stratosphere that will cause<BR>
any "nuclear winter" as the ash from firestorms and lower level injections<BR>
will fall to earth relatively quickly except in very unusual circumctances.<BR>
<BR>
Think about this paragraph (taken from the above web site) for a bit :<BR>
<BR>
"At the climax of this eruption, about 30km3 of pumice, ash and rock<BR>
fragments was erupted in only a few minutes and travelled horizontally as a<BR>
liquid flow, moving at speeds estimated at between 600-900kmh. It crossed<BR>
every obstacle in its path except the top of Mt Ruapehu."<BR>
<BR>
(Mt. Ruapehu is another volcano nearby that got famous a year or so ago when<BR>
it's last eruption was put on the web, it's the second tallest mountain in<BR>
the North Island. )<BR>
<BR>
Anther item I can't find a web reference to is the pyroclastic cloud (of<BR>
super-heated steam) from the 181AD explosion (that went out in front of the<BR>
above pumice/ash flow.) . There is evidence that this reached  reached the<BR>
Bombay hills some hundred miles or more from Taupo, killing (by scalding)<BR>
everything in that radius.<BR>
<BR>
So you didn't have to worry about being boiled by the ash flow, you were<BR>
dead of the steam before you even heard the explosion.<BR>
<BR>
What size nuke do you need to kill within minutes every exposed living thing<BR>
in a radius of one hundred miles ?<BR>
<BR>
OB TRAV:<BR>
Just describe these events to your players as they lift-off, get them scared<BR>
as their ship barely outpaces the superheated steam and pumice flow.<BR>
<BR>
And then, after they complain that this cannot be possible or natural, give<BR>
them the above reference.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone interested in buying a fishing lodge on Lake Taupo ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 15:48:29 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cold War<BR>
<BR>
>>Since we've found the crater, the big question is was it a commet or an<BR>
>>asteroid.<BR>
><BR>
>So what is the difference between a comet and an asteroid ?<BR>
<BR>
Comet = Mostly ice and frozen gas. Some have used the fanciful term<BR>
"dirty snowball".<BR>
<BR>
Asteroid = Very Large Rock.<BR>
<BR>
The largest asteroids are several hundred miles across; if I recall<BR>
correctly, comets top out at several miles, not several hundred...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:44:46 -0700<BR>
From: Clay <arioch@theriver.com><BR>
Subject: Skipping<BR>
<BR>
>Remember, there's *no* way to determine *in<BR>
>advance* which branch a ship will be at several months from now.<BR>
>So they *all* have to be able to deal with it. <BR>
<BR>
I would think it would be very easy for a bank to determine which branch<BR>
a ship will be making its' payment at.  When the loan is first applied<BR>
for the bank would want an exact business plan & itinerary on how the<BR>
ship will be used to make a profit.  They would determine that the ship<BR>
would have to stop off at a specific branch to make payments every so<BR>
many months.  If the ship didn't show, it would automatically be<BR>
reported to the authorities and a repo list.  A bank wouldn't approve a<BR>
loan on a wide, far reaching, or risky route.<BR>
That way the key system of encryption would be very useful without<BR>
giving all branches all of the keys.<BR>
<BR>
That is the way it works IMTU anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Clay<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 11:53:37 +1100<BR>
From: "David Healey" <David.Healey@dcb.defence.gov.au><BR>
Subject: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<Doug><BR>
You Know You've Been Playing Too Much Traveller When:<BR>
<BR>
You see a big orange panel truck with a corporate logo on the side that is<BR>
a stylized GK, and wonder what his problem is.<BR>
</Doug><BR>
<BR>
There's a big billboard on the way to work here that says, in huge bold letters : 'WEAR COMFORTABLE SHOES !'  Hmm.<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !<BR>
                                                                           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:16:09 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>  (stuff like the Idaho copper and silver mines<BR>
> or the Comstock Lode in Colorado(?)).<BR>
<BR>
 Didn't ya ever watch Bonanza?<BR>
<BR>
Virgina City, Nevada.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 14:35:18 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Nukes<BR>
<BR>
> The problem is that EMP proofing is very expensive compared to building a<BR>
> bigger nuke. What it boils down to is that you can harden your material<BR>
all<BR>
> you want, and all I have to do is build a little bit bigger nuke, then all<BR>
> your hard work is for naught.<BR>
<BR>
If you EMP-proof something, the size of the nuke doesn't matter.<BR>
<BR>
For instance, one means of avoiding EMP effects is to not use wires to link<BR>
devices, switch to fibre-optics for data transmission and fluids for power<BR>
transmission. Can you explain how a bigger nuke is going to affect that ?<BR>
<BR>
EMP-proofing processors is not done just by sheilding them, but by ensuring<BR>
they are built with small enough tracks that the pulse can't generate high<BR>
enough voltages to destroy anything, and by error correction mechanisms to<BR>
deal with any spurious data caused by the spike. .<BR>
<BR>
If you're just talking about EM-sheilding, then yes maybe a bigger nuke will<BR>
generate a larger spike that might get through, but that's not true<BR>
EMP-proofing, that's just waht you do to try and protect existing old<BR>
equipment, an EMP-proof system needs to be designed from scratch. .<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:08:38 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
<BR>
David Healey wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> <Doug><BR>
> You Know You've Been Playing Too Much Traveller When:<BR>
> <BR>
> You see a big orange panel truck with a corporate logo on the side that is<BR>
> a stylized GK, and wonder what his problem is.<BR>
> </Doug><BR>
> <BR>
> There's a big billboard on the way to work here that says, in huge bold letters : 'WEAR COMFORTABLE SHOES !'  Hmm.<BR>
<BR>
I wonder if the radio call letters WNRC or KNRC are taken.  Imagine the<BR>
station slogan:<BR>
<BR>
"Near-C ROCKS!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 14:22:17 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1400<BR>
<BR>
> [Steve Lieb]  Sorry, I had to de-lurk for a moment to engage this<BR>
> "debunking".<BR>
> Not sure how such a statement could be made, but here's the numbers.<BR>
><BR>
> At the height of the cold war, there were approximately 50,000<BR>
> warheads in various stockpiles, averaging (WAG) probably less than 10<BR>
> megatons.<BR>
<BR>
Well, based on my knowledge of the fiigures, and the references I've been<BR>
able to come up with, 50,000 warheads is way too high.<BR>
<BR>
My current estimate is that there was unlikley to have been more than 20,000<BR>
warheads at any one time, and it's more likley to have been much less. It is<BR>
quite possible they may have _produced_ 50, 000 warheads by then, but as<BR>
previously mentioned, early warheads were unstable and had to be regularly<BR>
scrapped.<BR>
<BR>
( BTW, what do you consider the "height of the cold war" ? There were<BR>
definitely more warheads around in the late 70's than in the 60's, and I've<BR>
always considered the Cold War was effectively over by the 70's )<BR>
<BR>
> Now the damned statistics.  50,000 warheads x 10 megatons means, if<BR>
> they were scattered perfectly in perfect conditions, they would<BR>
effectively<BR>
> destroy 25 mi^2 x 50,000 or 1.25 mio square miles.  Would this wipe out a<BR>
> country the size of France?  I don't know the size of France, but<BR>
California<BR>
> is only about 150,000 sq miles.<BR>
<BR>
I'll admit my choice of France was random with no real thought to the actual<BR>
figures, it was a bad guess<BR>
However you're right, even with my warhead numbers, France ( 211,000 squae<BR>
miles ) could be destroyed twice over.<BR>
<BR>
But not the whole planet.<BR>
<BR>
Even your 1.25M square miles represents only about 1% of the earth's<BR>
surface.<BR>
<BR>
So I have to admit I was wrong about it being only a country the size of<BR>
France, maybe you could take out India (1.26 M sqm). But the basic point of<BR>
my statement is proved, at no time did we have the capability to "destroy<BR>
all life on earth ten times over", and we also have never had the capability<BR>
to destroy all life on earth even once over.<BR>
<BR>
> Now, is this likely (perfect distribution, perfect condition)?  No,<BR>
> in fact, impossible.<BR>
<BR>
Exacltly.<BR>
<BR>
> But I'm pretty certain that if even a decent fraction of these<BR>
> warheads landed, France would be functionally obliterated.<BR>
<BR>
Yep.<BR>
<BR>
> Of course, it depends also on how you define "wipe out"?  If you<BR>
> mean "disintegrate to atoms" - you're right.  But a single 50mt<BR>
> lithium-cobalt doped warhead could, over the span of a half-dozen years,<BR>
> wipe out human and animal (and a sizeable fraction of vegetable) life on<BR>
> this planet.  Leo Szilard pointed that out in what - 1957?  Basic physics<BR>
> hasn't changed since then, and our understanding of the catastrophic<BR>
> consequences of even small amounts of radiation in the natural<BR>
environments<BR>
> has only gotten better.<BR>
<BR>
1950 I think.<BR>
<BR>
1957 was when the Windscale accident in England proved the "Szilard<BR>
complication"<BR>
<BR>
However, talking about what might be possible is a completely different<BR>
thing from actual capabilities.<BR>
<BR>
Only one cobalt-salted bomb was ever produced, and was exploded  by the<BR>
British at Maralinga, Australia. It was considered a failure, and the<BR>
cobalt-60 "doomsday"  device, while theoretically possible may still not be<BR>
prove to be workable.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:15:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Contacting Roger Sanger<BR>
<BR>
OK, I'm not trying to open up a can of worms, but nevertheless, I'd like<BR>
to contact this person and hear it from the horse's own mouth about the<BR>
dispute between Marc Miller and the current owner of the DGP properties.<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone on the TML know how I can contact him?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:21:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Rule of Man Coin<BR>
<BR>
Hello!<BR>
I was going through my MT stuff and on one page I find the good old Rule<BR>
of Man quarter-credit coin. I guess the reverse side says something like this:<BR>
<BR>
"DOMINATUS HOMINIS SPLENDET SPLENDIDE AMPLOIS OUAM GLORIAM ASTRIBUS"<BR>
<BR>
I am guessing that the U characters in Latin are represented on the coin<BR>
by V. So if there are any Latin scholars who can take a crack at what<BR>
this actually says, I'd like to hear from you!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 03:41:06 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:08:38 -0600, Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>David Healey wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>> <BR>
>> <Doug><BR>
>> You Know You've Been Playing Too Much Traveller When:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> You see a big orange panel truck with a corporate logo on the side that is<BR>
>> a stylized GK, and wonder what his problem is.<BR>
>> </Doug><BR>
>> <BR>
>> There's a big billboard on the way to work here that says, in huge bold letters : 'WEAR COMFORTABLE SHOES !'  Hmm.<BR>
><BR>
>I wonder if the radio call letters WNRC or KNRC are taken.  Imagine the<BR>
>station slogan:<BR>
><BR>
>"Near-C ROCKS!"<BR>
<BR>
That would be great for a college radio station at MIT or Cal Tech!<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1406<BR>
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